December 01 2011
Meh 14
To hell with Cryptic Court this time round – I declare today’s seven clues just stink. While I love to grapple with UK setters, and often adore their work, sometimes they err on the side of shamateur.
For Exhibits a to F, read below, and see if you agree. Provide a counterview if you don’t, or a niftier clue if you do. That’s how the Meh category operates. So am I right or am I right?
Not like being mislaid sir? = DISSIMILAR [So where’s the anagram signpost, Cinephile?]
Burdensome responsiblty taking queen round = ONEROUS [Surely Alberich, onus derives from onerous. They are closer than two hillbilly cousins.]
Explain meaning of popular palindrome = INTERPRET [Less testy about Neo’s gimmick, but if TERPRET can be clued as a palindrome, then so too can the OTATO in POTATO, or RAMMAR in GRAMMAR.]
Centre for missionaries = IONA [From Times 8911, which suggests a centre for racehorses is Aceh, and Stimorol chewing gum has its HQ in Timor. Not happy.]
Writer of science has pruned currant = SCRIBE [Araucaria, I love ya. Science for SC is OK at a push, but Ribena as currant, and that to be pruned to RIBE is risible.]
Help a farm labourer after loan = LEND A HAND [Times 9151 not only uses A in both clue and solution, but also falls for a false double meaning. HAND is both an aide, and to help, because they are are much the same thing.]
Wordsworth lines? Yes = POETRY [Where do I start, Orense? Meh with a big M.]
Comments
Sam — 01 December at 09:41AM
I think 4 would be OK as an &lit perhaps - as Iona was a centre for missionaries.
AC — 01 December at 09:56AM
@Sam, yes 4 literally has IONA in the centre of missionaries, and Iona is a sacred island off the coast of Scotland (c.f. http://www.philipcoppens.com/iona.html). Not sure what DA refers to, I'm always struggling to follow his genius.
AC — 01 December at 10:06AM
1. Forgive my ignorance, but can we not have 'mislaid' as the signpost for 'mislaid sir'? Mislaid suggests that the letters of 'sir' have been placed differently, but since we know that the answer is longer than three letters, we realise to also include the preceding word in the anagram.
AC — 01 December at 10:14AM
2. I'm happy for this to count as a reference to TERPRET, only because it is preceded by 'popular' which I guess can be reference to the IN part; i.e. if you are popular then you are with the "in crowd". In this way, the examples of POTATO and GRAMMAR can also be clued only if the P and G part is clued appropriately to suggest that 'palindrome' references a "palindromatic part" and not a complete word.
Anthony Douglas — 01 December at 10:15AM
Sorry DA, but I'm with Sam and setter - Iona was a great clue.
LEND A HAND I'm not so bothered about - one sense of HAND refers to a person, the other refers to an activity, and while the former meaning may have come from the latter, I think the word has established itself sufficiently to be its own. Now, if you want to whinge about 'loan' clueing 'lend', I'm all ears!
POETRY - well, the clue ain't, but it works, doesn't it?
DA — 01 December at 10:21AM
Thanks Sam, had no idea about the Iona mission. Consider the Meh-ness rescinded.
And welcome AC. Re Clue (1), I agree that MISLAID is a fair signpost, but not if it's part of the anagram fodder. Or is that the double duty that Cinephile is attempting, do we think?
Re Clue (2), following that logic, a word like FOREVER can be clued as 'Always dubious of palindrome' which I'd forever begrudge.
DA — 01 December at 10:26AM
Gday Anthony - re (7), yes it works, but prosaically, to put it mildly. A poet writes poetry, sure. But it's like clueing GARDENER with 'Botanical patch, um, for Peter Cundall, say'.
Or is my skin a bit thin this morning?
RK — 01 December at 10:40AM
1. Agreed - this needs a signpost.
2. This one's just slightly meh for me.
3. This is a shocker. The definition of a palindrome includes the fact that it is an actual word for a start. But even if 'terpret' was a word, does that mean palindrome is valid clueing for 'dad', 'mum', 'pop' et al? I think not.
4. Great clue.
5. Ribes is a genus of shrubs including the red and blackcurrant. Which is possibly how they came up with the name Ribena.
6. Meh - for same reasons as DA
7. See 6.
Mauve — 01 December at 10:54AM
1. Can "not like" (attached to being) be both signpost (albeit a dubious one) and definition?
DA — 01 December at 11:10AM
Jury may be out on this device, Mauve. Cinephile (aka Araucaria) could well have attempted a double-duty signpost, relying on the coincidental lynchpin of 'like'. I see your logic, but I reckon the logic is a tad crack'd, albeit inventive. (Which I'll never resent.)
Mauve — 01 December at 11:19AM
2. I learnt something. onerous is from the origin onus - I didn't know that - spot on DA - bad clue
3. definite meh, for exactly the reasons you articulate DA
4. fair enough (if not good even) given Sam's explanation
5. currants are from the plant genus ribes, so it's ribes pruned. Or pruned might refer to science, with ribe attached (although describing "sc" as science pruned is a bit of a stretch) I'm pretty sure it wouldn't refer to ribena though, which would be a nullaborish stretch.
6. I don't understand your problem with this one, DA. I see it as "help"=definition, "a farm labourer"="a hand", "after loan"=after "lend". What problem am I missing?
7. I also really like this one. The definition "Yes" is very unlikely to be a synonym for "yes", so it must refer to the surface meaning of the wordplay. Cool, I say.
Mauve — 01 December at 11:21AM
1. True DA, and also the double-duty isn't clean, because the definition "not like" is within the signpost "not like being"
Mauve — 01 December at 11:25AM
7. I retract my "cool" for this clue because any poet could have been substituted for Wordsworth, and he's already used Wordsworth=poet, so to use him for poetry as well is uncool.
RobT — 01 December at 11:45AM
3. Suxus. That is total dross.
4. Yucko. What the heck is a pruned currant anyway?
7. I think would be great as an &lit if the "Yes" were removed, given:
Lines = railway = RY
Boniface — 01 December at 11:53AM
1 is so-so - I don't really like the surface reading but I think MISLAID's double duty is OK. Others (Ximeneans) will differ.
2. I agree with DA - same origin, no fun.
3. Garbage clue. It's like quick clueing REDIVIDER as Palindrome (9)
4 should have the ?! for an &lit. It's a very good clue IMO.
And so is 5. OK clue.
Re 6 - I thought exactly the same thing when I solved that cryptic. There's no inventive step here.
7 I get the thrust of, but the poet - poetry connection is, yes, Meh.
Geoff Bailey — 01 December at 12:37PM
With respect to #1, I think that "being" was the intended signpost, attempting to indicate the constituents. Somewhat thin, I'll grant.
Using 'interpret' in palindrome context makes me think of "Do nine men interpret? Nine men, I nod", and thus to Weird Al Yankovic.
#4 is great, given the historical context and that 'Iona' is actually the centre part (unlike Aceh or Timor in those examples).
Without the 'has' getting in the way I would have tried to rescue #5 as SC = science pruned, RIBE = singular of RIBES, which is the kind of cheekiness I would expect from Araucaria. (This clue approach would work much better for SCRIBES.) But the combination of SC for science and RIBES being pruned does just end up being a little meh for me.
As far as #7 goes, I'm with RobT: This should have been an &lit with just " lines!" Wordsworth would be the poet of choice for the confusion that his name brings to the solving process. It's not great, for the reasons you observe, but it's the unnecessary 'yes' that tips this over into mehness.
Something to get the alternative clues rolling:
3. Translate "no" into prettier style (9)
7. Attempt of Edgar! (6)
[I was tempted to use 'essay' instead of 'attempt' in 7, but I'm not sure I like the effect.]
JPR — 01 December at 05:52PM
So 'ionerous' means 'burdened by one's mission'??
SK — 01 December at 06:07PM
1. DISSIMILAR: Unlike Rear Admiral, I miss ideal occupation
DM — 01 December at 11:44PM
I can only agree with you re onerous, DA. EP kinda got my goat this week with several similar etymological disasters. Been a tough day so I'm going to offer some cinematic silliness: A rodent of unusual size is quite a lot to bear.(and a neologism for apologists - etymollifiers)
SK — 02 December at 04:08PM
2. ONEROUS: Trying sole with sour cream
4. IONA: Island girl told to go away?
5. SCRIBE: Oddly sacked over joke score
xobhcnul — 02 December at 08:55PM
Doesn't the question mark in 1 act an indicator? I don't think it is serving any other purpose is it?
SK — 02 December at 10:09PM
@xobhcnul, agree that the question mark doesn't seem to be serving any purpose. But I've never seen a q mark on its own used as an anagram indicator. Needs something else I think.
Tweak to my alternative no.4 above-
IONA: Island girl told (rudely) to go away
(not sure this passes DA's good taste test)