November 04 2010
Motor-Mouth Clues
All this week we’ve been crafting short and punchy clues. That’s the art, right? Keep It Succinct, Stupid. But now and then, setters gush. They blab. They go on.
If you find one of my clues exceeding ten words, there’s a good reason. Maybe the answer is lengthy, and just needs a few more elements to get there. Or the wordplay is snaky. Or maybe the clue needs an extra beat, a cosier phrase. Or maybe, like now, I’m banging on.
So that’s the topic of Saturday’s Wordplay – good clues getting to the point, while disguising the point. But the real fun in writing the column is exposing some long, long clues. A quote clue from Araucaria tops the bill at 37 words, while a real clunker is a 26-worder for ICE-PICK.
If interest is high, I’ll run the column here next week. Meanwhile, enjoy these four talkathons from the past. The first stems from a 1935 Guardian:
Nothing keeps the backward fellow from the main point of the argument as the student of the understanding shows = NOOLOGIST [one versed in the science of thinking]
From LB in the Herald, late 1950s:
The territory of the emperor’s sovereignty is cut short by one little US state known only by experience = EMPIRICAL
Next two from 1965 collection by John Sullivan:
Mother intervenes between her pet and a nervous complaint and sticks to her principles in doing so = DOGMATIC
Sounds like the dwelling place you let someone have temporarily. Try taking milk of magnesia! = FLATULENT [which says it all]
Have you come across a long-long clue in your solving? Don’t be shy. Share the gabfest here! Or choose a horse (just ONE please – OK, two only) from this week’s Storm and go large with invent your own clue!
Comments
Peter Biddlecombe — 04 November at 08:01AM
"Afrit" (Alastair Ferguson Ritchie), whose 1949 "injunction" to setters was an important snippet of crossword history, wrote some epics. Here's one with only partial wordplay as far as I can see (still OK back then):
This actor won't do any gagging, and won't need any. Put the second half first, and you can still have him on a bit of string! = PUPPET. (Second half = PET, which could be on a lead or bit of string, but I can't make any more sense of PETPUP, which the clue seems to imply to my modern eyes.
SK — 04 November at 08:14AM
DA are you sure it's a good idea to encourage this sort of behaviour? I'm worried the site may crash...
DA — 04 November at 08:29AM
I know, SK - it's risky business, hence my injunction to keep our loquacity to one or two horses. But the results should delight.
And I welcome the likes of Peter B, as well - any puzzle fan who can put their hands on authentic examples of windiness.
Re Afrit's clue, Peter, or any of these early samples, we should bear in mind that early setters were introducing solvers to wordplay recipes that most of us take now as commonplace. (Which doesn't mean we can't have a cackle about them!)
Mr X — 04 November at 09:40AM
Possibly a "pet pup" (as opposed to a massive full-grown great dane or rottweiler ?) could be led on a bit of string as opposed to a proper lead ?
Mauve — 04 November at 09:41AM
I like the pick-up though, that both a pet pup and a puppet are both attached to a bit of string
Mr X — 04 November at 10:15AM
This could get way out of hand but here goes:
MP: Mr Prudent was defeated in 2002 by those means of communication (such as radio and television, newspapers, and magazines) that reach or influence people widely presenting a problem or enigma presented as entertainment that is written down or acted out, commonly based on mathematics, logic, mechanics, logistics or wordplay.
DA — 04 November at 10:28AM
Verbose and perfect. Stretching the point does make you cherish the pithy.
Mr X — 04 November at 10:48AM
I do recall Araucaria pulling off an enormous anagram/quote that may well have been an &lit. My 2nd door-stopper:
VC: Every second starter was very engaged in settling near to the front and then going forward. Each jockey controlled their racehorse, wanting only to prove equal to Dermot Weld's 1993 champion.
dg — 04 November at 12:54PM
What does 'gagging' mean in that clue?
Theyre lousy clues above. But I don't length is necessarily the crime - it's mainly the crime of 'overdefinitional' hints....
known only by experience,
student of the understanding shows,
sticks to her principles in doing so,
Mr Prudent was defeated in 2002 by,
Dermot Weld's 1993 champion.
A cryptic crossword isnt a general knowledge/ trivia crossword.
dg — 04 November at 12:59PM
MP: A heaven-sent commodity for 'just-lost-his-colleague-brother-in-trackwork-accident jockey Oliver in 2002 where all the papers and radio could make everyone confused
Mr X — 04 November at 01:31PM
I'm not an expert on 40s & 50s theatre slang but I think that gagging may have been a term for ad-libbing - as well as putting a gag over the mouth (neither of which apply to puppets).
dg — 04 November at 01:34PM
Why cant a puppet ad lib though? Don't David Strassman's appear to? (Or are ventriloquist's toys not called puppets?)
dg — 04 November at 01:34PM
Why cant a puppet ad lib though? Don't David Strassman's appear to? (Or are ventriloquist's toys not called puppets?)
Mr X — 04 November at 02:13PM
(WARNING - SPOILER ALERT) dg - Other than Chucky and Pinocchio, it's normally the puppeteer/ventriloquist doing the ad-libs rather than the puppet ;)
JD — 04 November at 02:30PM
Anyway...........Here's what I was working with on the other blog, but I had to cut it back, so I'm glad for the chance to be able to expand unfettered.
RJ: Start of stringed instrument goes from bad to good, found in the middle of the first part of Jewish New Year. Lamb curry or prized steed?
Mauve — 04 November at 04:13PM
A fave Simpsons moment:
Weary Sunday School teacher, answering Bart's final question, after half an hour of imaginative challenges to her morning's lesson:
"The puppet can still go to heaven - the ventriloquist can't"
dg — 04 November at 05:17PM
VC: Victoria's first leader was with a Northern Territory premier and got even with a mythical giant bird coming back from the Top End
Mr X — 04 November at 06:54PM
dg - Vintage Corp ?
dg — 04 November at 07:21PM
hmm
VC: Victoria's first leader was with a Northern Territory premier and got even with a tailless giantic whale coming back from the Top End
DA — 04 November at 09:38PM
MD: Multinational's foremost actuary initially acquired a thousand dollars for superannuity's conclusion to exist alongside dividends reduced by %66.666666, according to article
dg — 04 November at 09:41PM
hehe that sounds like Sir Humphrey Appleby
Peter Biddlecombe — 04 November at 11:10PM
Entirely happy to accept some windbaggery from the early clues - and various other bits of weirdness along the route away from undisciplined chaos. I do far better with Afrit's puzzles than the Times ones from the same era.
SK — 05 November at 08:36AM
I've deliberately chosen the nag with the shortest name, making the act of windbaggery even more ridiculous...
AT- Attila the Hun annihilated, until that he rebuilt (as a non-drinker) for a fifty dollar sum (in the absence of a dodgy slumlord), was fit for a queen.